GET THE L OUT!
We managed to get some time in with the amazing women from Get The L Out, and they produced this amazing interview for us. Read on to find out about the brave women who took matters into their own hands at LondonPride 2018.
1. What led to the formation of GetTheLOut?
We are a group of Lesbians who have worked together for many years (although we did not have a name then). We have been quite alarmed for some time about the way the trans-ideology and trans-activism is erasing women and women’s rights. Some of us have been active on this issue for some time, some have joined more recently. We have organised several actions in the past, separately or as a group, or as part of other groups. For this particular action we were inspired by the other actions in Prides all over the world (starting with the New Zealand protest this year) and wanted to show solidarity with women worldwide as it is a global problem affecting us all.
2. It was incredibly courageous to stand up for your beliefs in front of such a huge crowd at a flagship event. What led you and your friends to take such an enormous step?
The action has been often wrongly described as a protest against Pride. The truth is, if we had any hope that Pride in London would have recognised our demands we probably would have gone about it in a totally different way. For years we have witnessed the way the LGBT has been targeting Lesbians and have become very disillusioned.
Our action was for women everywhere. To take direct action to that level of visibility was to send women everywhere a message of hope, strength and sisterhood, and of course to raise awareness of the issue we face as Lesbians particularly. It has been wonderful to see so many groups of women organising talks all over the country about the way the GRA is affecting women’s rights. With that action we wanted to put a focus on Lesbians and the way the trans-ideology is affecting us specifically, particularly the way the sexual rights of men who call themselves “transwomen” or “lesbians” take priority over the rights of Lesbians to define their sexuality.
Today, in the GBT community, Lesbians can no longer say that they would not date a “transwoman,” because this is now considered “transphobic”; same-sex attraction is called “hate speech”. The GBT is naming females who are attracted to other females “bigoted” or “hateful” and it is a way to deny women’s right to have sexual boundaries under the name of “inclusivity” and progress. It is a clear anti-lesbian propaganda which enforces compulsory heterosexuality on a group of people who have already said “no” to men and who have already have had their sexual boundaries disrespected.
The other point we were making is equally important: “gender non-conforming” girls, (girls who do not perform femininity) are transitioned at a shocking rate in the UK. As Lesbians, and as feminists who campaign against sexists stereotypes, we firmly oppose the transition of young lesbians on the basis that their appearance or behaviour does not conform to traditionally accepted images of women. The trans-movement is a conservative movement which reinforces sexist stereotypes and opposes homosexuality because it promotes the social transition of lesbians, encouraging them to present as straight men thus favouring the pretence of heterosexuality over lesbianism – this is a form of conversion therapy. When the trans-ideology promotes the medical transition of Lesbians and pushes harmful drugs as well as unnecessary medical practices on healthy female bodies, we understand this as a form of misogynist medical abuse against women and girls.
3. Did you expect the reaction that you've unleashed and can you describe some of it for us?
The first reaction after the trans-activists outrage on Twitter was from Pride in London rushing to make a statement to condemn our action as “bigoted”, “hateful” and “ignorant”. Pride believes that Lesbians are an “issue (which) must be stamped out”. The press has overwhelmingly condemned our action too; very few media outlets have represented our views fairly or even asked us for comment.
Being doxx’d, losing friends, social media war accompanied with the usual death and rape threats by trans-activists, the Marketing and Fundraising Director of Pride in London, Polly Shute, coming onto one woman’s Facebook page to tell her that she would be contacting her employers to get her sacked because of her hateful conduct. All this is the violent but usual way patriarchy reacts to women who dissent.
For those of us who have been doing this for years, we did expect it. The only option the GBT and the trans-community (and the compliant mainstream behind them) had, was to unleash this massive backlash. The aim of the backlash is to threaten and strike women back into compliance, to make sure women don’t get ideas, like start protesting like we did in a direct and visible way. That is why they strike so hard. To scare women off.
The message sent out to all young lesbians by all the mainstream LGBT organisations and the press has been that being a lesbian with sexual boundaries is “transphobic” and that lesbians have no place at Pride and need to be stamped out! 7 LGBT organisations are throwing Lesbians under the bus in the interests of trans-ideology and this outright misogyny and homophobia has been clearly understood by women.
The second aspect of the reaction, and the most important one, has been women’s reaction to the action. We have received a huge amount of messages publicly, but even more privately, from women saying how they support us but also how they feel threatened and silenced WITHIN THE GBT to say anything like this. The GBT today IS the closet for most Lesbians, our action has highlighted that. We definitely represent that silenced majority.
The other thing to say is that a lot of women are now so used to death and rape threats online that it looks like the effects are wearing off. Women are not scared anymore. We are speaking up more and more.
4. Do you feel that the LGBT organisations are hearing your voice? Have any of them contacted you to hear your side of things?
Nope, and by condemning our action they have in fact confirmed what we thought of them being anti-lesbians and misogynist.
5. There's clearly a divide in the lesbian community concerning trans rights. Can you tell me more about how this is affecting you?
Trans-ideology does not recognise sexual difference. For trans-activists a woman is not an adult human female but an identity, feeling in a man’s head. Women: adult human females, are socialised to be empathetic and to be “good” or “likeable” and to give way to other people’s feelings. Many women in the Lesbian community have swallowed trans-ideologies’ inclusivity-branding whole and want to be kind to these men.
Many women have been told more than once that they are mean for stating biological facts, that a male is a man, and not a woman, regardless of how he might feel. Some women have internalised the idea that standing up to men who want to gaslight Lesbians into accepting that male sexual anatomy is female, is transphobic bigotry. But standing up for one’s right is not mean. Calling out men who want to co-opt all single-sex provision, including Lesbian events, and who advocate for medical experimentation on children is not mean.
Almost all lesbian events have been rebranded “LGBTQ”, “Queer”, “open to all genders”, or to “whoever identify as a woman” not simply to be inclusive but to avoid the inevitable conflict that would arise if a strictly Lesbian event was held. Men who want to be recognised as women demand “inclusion” at Lesbian events because if sexually attracted to women they say they are Lesbians. Of course they are not. They are heterosexual males.
A lot of Lesbians try to organise Lesbian events, but a lot of them find it impossible to make their events Lesbian-only because of the grief that the trans-activists would cause. That’s bullying, and it’s leading to a complete absence of any exclusively Lesbian spaces - at least organised openly: a lot is happening underground. There is absolutely no point in going to mainstream GBT organisations for support as they have been entirely taken over by the trans-lobby.
I would also add that a lot of lesbians in the GBT have either transitioned or are very close to women who have transitioned. These women stand by “transmen”, they validate their decisions in order not to lose them as friends even if they may feel critical of the whole thing. But also because there is no alternative way of thinking within the GBT; a lot of young lesbians have never been in a lesbian-only space, never had access to lesbian feminist theory, so “queer” is the only way they have ever thought about themselves. For these women, there is a belief that radical feminists are anti-trans, meaning anti transmen.
Radical feminists though, do not think the experience of men who transition and the experience of women who transition are similar in any way. We think of men who transition as men, and as such, we see them as members of the oppressors class: they want to invade our spaces and disrespect our sexual boundaries, the way any other men behave. The majority of them do not have surgery (it means they still have their penises) or hormonal “treatment“ of any kind. But if we listen to the stories of women who detransitioned, it looks like women and girls who transition do it to avoid the misogyny they experience as women and girls, to avoid the constraint and restrains of femininity. This disconnection to their womanhood is done at great cost to their physical health because they do have double mastectomies and do take testosterone. So we understand them as oppressed in this system. How this affects us is that the whole ideology is used to separate women, it is a classic divide and conquer tactic.
6. Why do you think gay men are not targeted in the same way lesbians are by TRAs? And on the flip side, why aren't gay men standing up with lesbians and calling out the TRA homophobia?
Gay men are not targeted because they are men. They do not experience sexism and misogyny, they do not have their sexual boundaries constantly questioned and disrespected. So even if trans-activists have been saying homosexuality is inherently transphobic in practice, it is not gay men’s spaces which are being invaded and destroyed, it is not gay men’s rights to have same-sex relationships which are being stamped out. Certainly, I have never heard a single case of a woman who identifies as trans invading gay men’s spaces and demanding sex with them. As far as I know #CunnilingusForGayMen is not a thing! But the #cottonceiling is.
Clearly identification does not erase a life of socialisation: Men who call themselves “trans women” and demand to have sex with Lesbians behave like any other men. It comes as no surprise.
Gay men, in the vast majority, are at best unconcerned by Lesbian issues, and at worse actively working against us. A tiny minority sees through it but there are not enough of them to make any difference. The answer to why would probably be found in the dynamic within sexes working in mixed spaces where men’s concerns are usually seen as universal and women’s concerns dismissed as irrelevant. GBT is then a male sexual rights movement (including all sorts of anti-feminist practises from BDSM to bestiality), so is the trans movement. It seems natural they stand together.
7. In the current climate, what advice would you give young lesbians?
This is really important. First remember what you know: a penis is not female. It’s a bad sign (even if you haven’t clearly stated that you are a lesbian), if a man, young or old, tells you his penis is female. This is called gaslighting. Gaslighting is a form of emotional manipulation and the gaslighting abuser will try to make their intended victim question reality and even their sanity. If a man tell you his penis is female and you should accept to have a sexual relationship with him, this is outright coercive and rapey.
If your so-called friends or any man (sometimes calling themselves “trans women”), on or offline, tell you that you are a bigot for not accepting that a penis can be female, this is not true and a sure sign you should take some distance with that person. You are not a bigot. You are sane. You are an amazing young woman who knows what’s what, who knows who she is, what she wants and where her sexual boundaries are.
If your friends tell you you are a bigot for not accepting that a penis is female and they cannot be friends with you then ask yourself if you want to be friends with someone who denies biological facts. Its sounds harsh, and it is hard to feel isolated, but there are times where it is better to be alone than to be in a group that is emotionally manipulative and abusive.
If you feel different from other girls, don’t feel attracted to boys, don’t want to wear girl clothes, dislike make-up, like your hair short, or like sports traditionally associated with boys, THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH YOU! None of this means you are born in the wrong body, none of this mean you are a boy, none of it means you need to transition. Many women and many Lesbians have experienced what is now called “gender dysphoria” and certainly the majority of women have experienced body dysmorphia. They both are manifestations of what feminists have called internalised misogyny. This self-hatred is what it is like to be a girl and a woman in patriarchy, where we only receive negative messages about us. Transitioning will not solve any of your suffering, having your breasts surgically removed will never turn you into a male, and it will not remove the pain because the problem is not with you or your body, the problem is with our society which hates women and girls.
So for those lesbians who are in the GBT but silently critical for fear of being ostracised, or worse, I would say leave the GBT community, leave the queer spaces now. The GBT is enforcing their brainwashing based on lies, reversals and imaginary fabrications, they enforce the lies with threats of violence or actual violence which disable our capacity to see clearly who the oppressor actually is, let alone be critical. It is very visible that a lot of pro-trans-activist group (say the ones which have been targeting gender critical events, for example) are male-centred and male-led.
It is crucial women find like-minded women so they can think clearly outside of the mass gaslighting that is going on everywhere else. This is why women-only spaces are forbidden. Because men cannot monitor what we think when we are in them.
It is crucial we all act and speak out as much as we can at this point. It is really exciting to see so many Lesbians protesting pride and dyke march events. We hope there will be more protests, more public meeting, more women speaking out. Any form of visible dissent is important, as our rights as women and as Lesbians are threatened to the point of erasure. We need to be standing our ground as never before.
8. What's the general feeling in the lesbian community?
A large number of Lesbians were opposed to bolting the T onto LGB organisations simply because they did not understand what gender has to do with sexual orientation. Obviously, the more it becomes apparent that trans-ideology is anti-lesbian, the more women are speaking. But speaking out is not easy, especially because the trans-lobby is so well resourced and trans-activists will do everything they can to ensure you are labelled a terf, socially ostracised and lose your job. Not to mention the threat of outright violence.
Within the GBT, Lesbians have had to agree and go along with the trans-ideology simply because as soon as anyone disagrees with the “trans women are women” mantra, women are simply excluded.
9. Have you encountered women who have had first-hand experiences of homophobia in the guise of pro-trans rights?
We ARE women who have first-hand experience of this. All of us have. We have lost lesbians spaces and women-only festivals, we have been threatened in our own communities by males who call themselves lesbians, who invade and demand to be accepted, penis and all. We fear to go to Lesbians bars, let alone Lesbian dating sites for fear of meeting a man pretending to be a lesbian. We have been threatened when we have organised events. Our gathering are still happening but they happen underground most of the time. This is real and it is happening right now.
10. What's next for GetTheLOut?
Wait and see!